Resi to Commercial Brokerage, Finding Data, Banks Hate Ground Leases? (Office Hours)

Tyler shares insights on commercial real estate investing and development, emphasizing the importance of finding reliable civil engineering firms, considering cash flow, and identifying properties with long-term ownership. He also discusses the challenges of commercial real estate brokerage and the importance of taking action, building a strong network, understanding demographic research, and maintaining quality properties to attract quality tenants. Cauble highlights the potential of commercial real estate to compound earnings over time, but noted that it requires hard work and dedication.

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Key Takeaways:

• Tyler is working on a boutique hotel project called Salt Ranch and is providing video updates on the project's progress.

• Cauble is also running an apprenticeship program at Peerless Mill and is in the process of reviewing applications and scheduling follow-up calls.

• Cauble emphasizes the importance of networking, cold calling, and personal effort in commercial real estate rather than relying heavily on software and technology.

• He advises aspiring commercial real estate investors to "just do it" and make the leap, finding a mentor and getting hands-on experience.

• Cauble discusses strategies for evaluating sites, maximizing cash flow, and educating tenants on triple net leases.

• He also shares his perspective on why banks are hesitant to finance properties with ground leases.

About Your Host:

Tyler Cauble, Founder & President of The Cauble Group, is a commercial real estate broker and investor based in East Nashville. He’s the best selling author of Open for Business: The Insider’s Guide to Leasing Commercial Real Estate and has focused his career on serving commercial real estate investors.

Episode Transcript:

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Are you looking to take the next step toward investing in commercial real estate but don't know where to go? Series central offers a comprehensive education and coaching platform designed to help you get started. Our online courses cover a wide range of topics, from the fundamentals to advanced strategies, ensuring you have the knowledge and skills needed to thrive in this competitive industry. As a member, you'll gain access to our exclusive online community and monthly group coaching calls, providing you with valuable networking opportunities and personalized guidance from experienced professionals. Whether you're a beginner or looking to take your career to the next level, cre Central has the resources you need. Visit www dot cre central.com. To learn more. Welcome back to the commercial real estate investor podcast live from the caliber group Studios here in Nashville, Tennessee, for another episode of office hours if you have questions about commercial real estate, I'm your mentor will get me as your coach jump in the lives every Tuesday 8:30am Central Standard Time. I'm here your questions, happy to answer them. The advice is free. So you're probably getting what you pay for a couple of updates on this past week. But a good week. Overall. We filmed an update on salt rich, if you've been keeping up with us, that's the boutique hotel that I have been working on for two years now. And we're just now starting construction. It was it was tough not to get a little too upset about the entire Metro Nashville permitting zoning issues that we've had there. But I figured you know what it's appropriate, we have finally restarted everything on that project. So let's get an update out to everybody. And we're going to be giving you you know, video updates every couple of months as we move forward, hopefully kind of treating it like an HGTV style of hey, here's how we're doing this boutique hotel, if you want to do something like him, just follow this video series, reach out ask questions, really excited to finally be getting that done. It's gonna be such a beautiful project. And I can't wait to personally have it off of my development books and on my investment side of things instead. For those of you that applied for the apprenticeship that I have at peerless mill, thank you for being patient with me. I had one I've got a lot going on right now. That's not an excuse to there were 21 applications. And I don't know if for those of y'all that saw there were like 15 or 20 questions on there. They were pretty in depth. And I did that intentionally because I didn't just want anybody applying I really wanted the people that wanted to put in some effort and show why they should be apprenticing with us. So I finally shot out emails this morning on all of those to start scheduling a follow up calls with the, you know, applications that we are interested in talking to so excited to be taking the next steps there had some amazing people apply. I mean, absolutely outstanding resume. So really excited to be talking with you all hopefully we'll be doing those in the next next week or so. Last, or I guess this weekend, I went down to Chattanooga to negotiate for a 38,000 square foot space that we are looking to get least here pretty soon spent spent the day just securing more buildings. I mean, it's just Mike, kind of the maintenance man security guy out there. I ended up going I'm a big Milwaukee Tools guy, I ended up going to Home Depot saw this massive hammer drill that honestly, like it drills into brick and concrete like butter. And so with that I was able to actually secure some of these buildings in a better way than I ever have before. And then a 10th of the time. So excited to see if that'll actually work this time and keep some of these buildings secure. We had a group coaching call last night, that was phenomenal. And it's actually I've decided to start adding some more stuff to my Siri accelerator program. So if you've ever considered joining it, I mean, listen up, because I'm adding even more to it. We had a coaching call last night, like diving into a case study on a piece of land and I bought that I rezone from 11 to 63 units. And it didn't make any sense. I've got a lot of content, PDF, spreadsheets, stuff that just doesn't necessarily make sense in the context of like a hey, here's how to invest in commercial real estate sense. But since we're doing these group coaching calls, and I'm diving further into this, I'm like, You know what, there's like 20 or 30 pieces of content from, you know, emails, to zoning applications, stuff like that. It's just good to familiarize yourself with the process that I'm now going to start dropping into the Siri accelerator group. So like last night, we covered An RFP, a request for proposal that my team actually sent out to the architects and engineers that we were going to have designed the 63 unit condo complex, that my students will be able to just take modify for their own projects, and utilize so that they can get better proposals moving forward as they're doing these projects. So we're doing like, I guess I'm calling it like the Siri accelerator, additional content section that's just going to have even more of that kind of stuff. I mean, you know, the, the thing that I've always strived to do with that program is create commercial real estate investing in a box, then make it as easy on you as possible. Because I've been doing this for 10 years, I've got the documents, I've got all sorts of things that, you know, my students could just take, modify and learn from me instead of having to spend 10s of 1000s of dollars with other people having or, or years honestly, of their own time haven't worn that. So awesome. That's a little update from me over this past week. Sorry, if I'm kind of I'm kind of losing my voice. I don't know what's going on. Christopher saying I have said that I think it'd be a good fit for flex industrial project, how would I evaluate the site? That is a great question, Christopher. I don't know that if that we have a video on the YouTube channel necessarily about determining highest and best use, I know that we we do in the program, I would dive into I mean, one, like the best thing that you could do, starting out, if you want to get into development, find a really good civil side engineer, and lean on them, they will go do all of the lift for you. I mean, having looked at this, literally last night, I spent 18 grand on a civil engineering firm, to go through the full rezoning process for me on that parcel. They go in, they double check the zoning, they schedule all of everything that you need for all of your rezonings any meetings, you know, pre AP meetings that you need, you know, if there's some sort of, I don't know, sewer line easement that you want to see if you can relocate, right, they will set up all those meetings for you. They'll even put together, you know, some proposed site plans so that any officials or any community members can visualize what you're actually looking to do there. So that's how I would I would plan to evaluate the site first is call a civil engineer, tell them that you want to do a zoning review, and maybe even a yield study, right that that yield study will show you what could be built there. And the density that could be built there. And then from there, you'll you'll kind of take that information and you'll go to your underwriting and say okay, well, I think it's gonna cost X for us to build this. You know, I can rent it for why do the numbers work? Yes or no? Then, you know, you move forward, you don't have that helps. Christopher. Matt Brown morning, Tyler. Good morning, Matt. Any update on the status of the apprenticeship? Oh, funny. Well, there we go. I just, I just updated everybody on that. So there you go, Matt. Hopefully, hopefully you caught that. But I just shout out emails to everybody that applied this morning. Robinson, USMC is saying good morning. All Good morning, Robinson, Trevor, the relationship between cash on cash and debt service coverage ratio, and what you can do to maximize cash flow with current market? Not really sure what your question is there. Are you wanting me to talk about the relationship between cash on cash and debt service coverage ratio, or what you can do to maximize cash flow with the current market? I mean, you know, cash on cash right now, if you're able to get 8%, good for you. The problem is debt is also 8%. So, you know, you end up actually losing money. On on all of that. I was actually just having this conversation not even 30 minutes ago, with an investor diving into, you know, because they wanted to pull some money out of their their home equity, and do a line of credit there. And I was talking to them, it's like, yeah, I mean, we could, we could definitely put that money to work for you. The problem is, you're going to need something that's cash flowing immediately, because you're going to be paying seven, seven half 8% on that home equity line of credit. And you don't necessarily want to be coming out of pocket for that investment, which means you need to be coming up with something that's eight, nine 10% cash on cash returns. And it's just tough to really find something like that it's going to work today. So, you know, it's, it's tough out there. Today, I'm all about bringing a little more equity to the table to be more safe. And as I always kind of have been adding as much value as I possibly can. I like to take on the deals that need more work because I can force the appreciation and turn it into something that's significantly more valuable. In the long run, I mean, that's kind of my thoughts here.

All right, the realist vet is saying what is the biggest piece of it advice you would give to someone looking to transition into commercial real estate? Great question. Just do it, make the leap, jump off the cliff. Don't think about it. So, you know, look, it's easier said than done, right? I mean, I got started in commercial real estate when I was 21. You know, I mean, I needed like $50 a week to survive, right? So it's a lot easier when you're younger, and you don't have a lot of expenses or overhead. That being said, if you've if you've got six to 12 months of reserves, right, or you're working on weekends, I had to work on weekends. I mean, when I first got into commercial real estate, I was waiting tables on weekends or working in construction. I was doing anything I could to get by. I mean, I made like $40,000, my first year in commercial real estate brokerage. But when you're like, which sounds like a decent amount, right? It's okay. But when it's 100% Commission, it's not that great. Right, like $40,000 base salary compared to $40,000. In commissions, those two very, very, very different incomes. So yeah, I mean, I was having to work, construction and do whatever kind of a week is just to make it work. Do it, the sooner the better. You know, it's one of those industries that I think compounds, the longer that you are in it, and doesn't necessarily have a ceiling unless you want to put a ceiling on it. You know, let's be honest, residential, you can only do so much before you start having to hire a team to help you and then you almost kind of go backwards in terms of efficiency, right? Because then you're having to hire a certain amount of people to do even more deals to make as much money as you were before when you're handling everything. Whereas in commercial real estate, I mean, you know, look, $10 million, and closed volume for a residential real estate agent is above average. $10 million in commercial real estate is a good quarter. So we'll put it that way. So find a mentor. Get out there and do it. Do anything you can to get a foot in the door at it's worth it. Jay, what's going on, man? He's saying come take Buchanan I tried. I liked Buchanan. That's a that's a street in North Nashville. I am actually looking at an investment property over off of Jefferson Street. I used to own a property over off of Buchanan and I mean, I love it over there. You know slimmin Huskies pizza, it has done a phenomenal job representing their neighborhood and and bringing jobs back to that area. I love that corridor. They're doing some amazing things with a walkability on it. I don't know why it's taking so long for the corridor to turn around. I think honestly, it's it can get really expensive really fast, because everybody's sort of looking at at the same time. But nothing has really happened yet. But yeah, I mean, what Buchanan Awesome, awesome. St. I love that area. And I would be happy to buy something over there if anything pops up again. Kevin, Kurt, how's your flexpays development that you have talked about previously, I believe near the highway. Hmm. Kurt, I'm not sure which one that is. I don't have any flexpays developments currently going on? I wonder if that was one of my students that we talked about? Or something else? I'm not sure. So I mean, I hope it's going great. Whatever it was, gee, Nashville, if costar doesn't have any info on a commercial property, what is the best software website to use for site selection report and data? I mean, let's be honest, let's operate under the assumption that costar is not going to have the data because even if costar has data, in my experience, it has not been great data. So, you know, I like to use it depends on what kind of data you need. Right? I love CRS data, I found out last night apparently they're only in the southeast. So you know, that's something to keep in mind. The best app I have ever used hands down for commercial real estate. And real estate in general really, is an app called land glide, L A N D, G, Li D. And I think it's like 10 bucks a month. It's nothing super minimal. But it basically pulls up a map shows you all of the parcels and it has the owner's name written on it. So you can very easily and quickly look at who owns what. And it connects to the tax records and it works anywhere in the country. So highly recommend that I love land glide. Really interesting app, and they're doing a phenomenal job. Now, that being said, like it's not going to have necessarily somebody's contact information, their phone numbers and stuff like that, you know, CRS data does it will connect straight to white pages. But, you know, that's just that's part of being a commercial real estate broker, right? I mean, there's, there's no easy way to do it. Here's the thing, like over the years, I've been pitched on so many different pieces of software, but it's like, Oh, you gotta get this piece of software. You gotta get that and you gotta get this one to get phone numbers and that one to get whatever. None of it matters. None of it matters. There's at all. Look, I terminated almost all of our software in 2020 costar treated me horribly. So I, I terminated our contracts. haven't given them $1 sense. And guess what I have my best year ever in 2022 as a commercial real estate broker with a sold 35 million, which I mean, I know it's not that much. But I sold $35 million a year by myself, and didn't have any of the software, any of the fluff. Because I was really good at networking, and keeping track of my CRM, and just making cold calls and making phone calls and working by network. And you don't necessarily have to make cold calls, if you're calling all your friends all the time. And you're going out to places and being seen and talking about stuff on social media and all that kind of stuff. So no, I mean that. That was my formula, the best year of commercial real estate brokerage I've ever had, I had none of the software, I didn't have any of the AI's to help me make phone calls or anything. So I think there's something to be said about, you know, seeing past the shiny object syndrome and making the cold calls, or making the calls, putting in the effort. Dwayne random question, maybe I'll have a random answer for you. What made you separate the property management division from the main brokerage firm? Good question. One, I've got a, I've got partners in the property management, I didn't think that it made sense to bring them into the Partnership on my broker's team, to I wanted the brands to be separate, because no matter how amazing of a property manager you are, you're gonna get bad reviews, there are going to be tenants that pay rent late, they're going to be upset that you charge them a late fee. Like it's just just how it is. And so they'll go and leave you a bad review. Well, I don't, I don't, we don't have like dissatisfied customers on the cobble group, but the brokerage, so it's like, I don't really want that kind of affecting them. So we did that. And then also just liability. You know, property management often gets brought into lawsuits, like when a tenant sues a landlord. They're also just gonna bring in the property management team. I didn't want the brokerage getting looped into all of that. So multiple reasons. Really. I know some people do it all together. You know, God bless him. I just didn't want to deal with that. Christopher said, good info. Thank you. I don't think it would need to be resolved. Awesome, man. There you go. Let's see Isabella. Saying, Hey, Tyler just got my real estate license. I want to thank you for your videos as you are the only person I can find on YouTube on commercial real estate. Oh, awesome. Isabella, thank you so much. That's very nice. Just made my morning. Appreciate it. I'm glad I'm glad the videos are helpful. At the end of the day, that's all I really want. Right? teach you guys about commercial real estate. And hopefully you guys can do something with it. K wise saying best website platform for market research or market data. Ooh, back when I was like at the height of my brokerage I would use site to do business which is like a CCI M affiliate kind of thing. EZRI has some really good information on it. Is next the next conference is besides costar. Yes, I agree, besides costar. You know, I think that I mean, you can also get like really good local data just by searching, you know, demographics in Nashville, or whatever. And I found some really good resources. Like, you know, here in Nashville, we've got the downtown Nashville partnership. Well, they spend money working with the Chamber of Commerce, to put together all of this demographic and data on tourism and stuff in Nashville. So that's actually super helpful. I don't need to go to Esri for that I can just go to downtown Nashville partnership and cite their research instead. So always just get creative with it. That's kind of how I feel. But I loved EZRI insight to do business. I thought they were great. I mean, honestly, like Craxi will pull in some data on some of the deals that they do. I think loop net will pull in some demographic data as well. That's I mean, that's honestly the extent, here's, here's the thing, that is a weak spot for me as an investor. I know I'm not the best at finding the demographic research or the data because I typically invest in neighborhoods that I know really well, that I have studied for a long time. So I don't necessarily have to go out and get the demographic information for a neighborhood like East Nashville where I've been investing for five years and living for six because I spend every day in this neighborhood. So it makes my life a little bit easier. So you know, that being said, you know, mold your lifestyle around the the type of investor you want to be. I'm a very lazy investor. And the majority of my properties are within a 10 minute radius of my office. Eric is saying other than telling them to Google it. Is there a best practice for education and inexperienced or inherited gross rent retail tenant? About triple net? So Eric, I'm assuming you're asking,

is there a way to educate a tenant that is inexperienced on gross rent rate? Tell tenants and, and triple that's yeah, I mean, I would just have a conversation with them on how on how triple net leases actually benefit them in the long run, here's the thing, triple net leases are just as beneficial for tenants as they are for landlords, a lot of people don't see it that way, there's a reason that Starbucks will not sign anything other than a triple net or double net lease, they want control of the common area, because it reflects on their brand, right, they want to make sure that the money that they're paying, is going towards the landscaping. And so as a tenant, when you are in a triple net lease, you can audit all of the common area maintenance, property taxes and building insurance fees that you are paying to the landlord, which means they can't cut corners, and pocket that cash instead. I've seen this way too many times on properties that have gross leases, where landlords will just say, You know what, my property taxes went up this year, I need to pocket a little bit more money in exchange for that. So I'm just going to cut back on cleaning from twice a week to once a week. They can do that. I mean, unless in the ways it says specifically, you have to do it twice a week. But I mean, they can start to cut back on expenses like that. And that's kind of how some of these properties get into this death spiral. And can never really get out of it. Because some of the landlords will start cutting corners, and then the property becomes lower quality, and then you get lower quality tenants and then you know, so on and so forth. So that's the the conversation that I would have with them is, you know, look, it holds both of us accountable. It's market. And honestly, like, Eric, if everybody else was on a triple net lease and that tenants not willing to do it, kick them out. Like this is the lease that we're signing, right? I mean, it's market. And you know, I've had to do that before. It's obviously not ideal. I mean, and you could also tell them like, hey, we'll keep it as a gross lease. But here's where your lease needs to be in order for me to be comfortable, right? And you just add a 10 15% You know, error budget in there, right? In case anything happens. They can say, Hey, guys, what's going on? They can get to see you. Molly, when glad for the web. Molly, good to see you. We need to catch up soon. We've had a couple of babies so we haven't been able to really catch up. Derek, good morning, all. Let's see, Dwight is saying Craxi pro app does it as well talking about the demographics. Awesome. So there you go. Craxi pro app. Vick and Tyler, I enjoyed your conference. Thank you for sharing to the world. Absolutely. Yeah, that was a the video that we dropped this week was a talk that I gave it the better life Rei summit in Denver last month. And man, what a great crowd. It was such a fun event highly recommended. If you guys are interested in real estate at all, you should go to Brandon Turner's Rei summit next year, it's awesome. Robinson, Tyler, I'm going crazy trying to find a commercial property for a medical supply company. Any advice on where to look other than Krejci loop net, etc. Robinson, I'm sorry to hear you're dealing with that. Yes, I do have a couple of pieces of advice, one, go to your tax records, and go to buildings that are 10 years that have been owned by the same person for 10 years or more. That fit all of your other criteria, square footage, location, et cetera, et cetera, print that out, start sending them mailers every quarter, then I would also start calling every single commercial real estate broker in your market and telling them exactly what you were looking for. And, you know, seeing if you can kind of take an off market approach from that respect. If it's not on market, that's the easiest thing to do is to just go off market and there's there's really two efficient ways for you to handle it. I mean, of course, look, you can start knocking on doors, you can start cold calling, it's a lot of work, I'd rather find a broker that's going to do all that for you and you just send the letters. So hope that helps. I mean, the next best thing is just start stopping in, you know, knock on doors and see see what's going on. Rusty a few weeks ago, you mentioned turning big block retail into industrial What about zoning, cost to install docks, etc? It seems basis going in doesn't make sense, Rusty? Great point. So zoning is a big deal, right? In Nashville, we have several zonings that allow for a wide array of uses. So it's going to depend on what your specific zoning allows, you know, not every zoning, like we have, I think a shopping center zoning, which I actually haven't seen in a long time, but I know that we do have that zoning. And I would imagine that only permits shopping centers, right. So you know, it would have to be a mixed use zoning that allows for some sort of distribution, warehousing, et cetera, which there is plenty of that zoning out there. Now as far as docks, go, docks are relatively inexpensive to install, depending on what the building is, right? I mean, if you're having to cut through, you know, 10 feet of concrete to get, you know, to install a loading dock for that. Yeah, that's pretty really not going to make a whole lot of sense. But most buildings, all you have to do is find an area that is at grade or at, you know, at the level of which you need it. And just modify it a little bit cut holes in the walls. I mean, there's even systems, I get them on my Instagram, like ads for my Instagram all the time. Some sort of, you know, like, dock installation where like, I don't know, it's half the price or cheaper. I don't really know the details of it. But you don't have to do a typical dock installation, it's a lot cheaper. I'll see if I can find that. I mean, I would imagine now that I've talked about it, my phone's been listening, and it's going to show me the ad as soon as I open it up. So if that's the case, and I'll screenshot it, and I'll share it with you guys next week. But it seems like a pretty good solution to me. But yeah, I mean, if you're having to, you know, cut out a bunch of road and dig down to get, you know, a dock, I mean, I would start considering some alternatives, but you can easily build a wooden ramp that goes up to an 18 Wheeler, things like that. Cape mom is saying, what is the real estate market going to fall on Cape Cod? As a good question. I don't know, I hope it doesn't. I don't know much about Cape Cod, I've actually never been I'm gonna have to come up there and check it out. Now. I would assume it's gonna it's gonna stay strong. I mean, Cape Cod is a beautiful area. It's a nice escape. You've got a lot of people that live in big cities near there. And it's a really, it's easily accessible. City town area for them to get away to. So I could see why UPS stay strong, and maybe maybe doesn't fall. Derek is saying, Hey, Tyler, why don't banks like property that have ground lease since banks main focus is the physical property. So Derek, it's just because there's a risk, right? I mean, at the end of the day, love them or hate them, banks are the most risk averse partner you will ever have in a deal. And so if anything goes against, you know, what they typically like to do, they see red flags. To be fair, though, I also don't like ground leases. And I'll say that from the perspective of I don't like owning a building. And then I'm paying to lease the ground, I'll buy land and lease that to somebody else. Those are two very different things, right? Because if you own the land, eventually you're going to inherit that building. If you own the building, eventually you're going to lose that building. So that's that's typically why banks don't like them. Now, if you have a 99 year lease, fine, they don't care, they'll probably lend to you. Just depends on the terms of the deal. But that's why we actually had that conversation last night in our group coaching call, you know, you don't get to depreciate land, right land is not really depreciable according to the IRS, it doesn't lose value just because you own it. Whereas a building can. So there's a lot of other benefits to it that aren't necessarily just rental income. Right. So a couple things to keep in mind. The adventure investor if you buy a building and separate fixtures, kitchen equipment, etc. Do you pay taxes on the fixtures? Oh, gosh, man that that is a question for a CPA. We have always just lumped everything in to one price for the real estate and the fixtures come with it. I would imagine if you separate them out, then yeah, you're probably going to have to pay taxes on it. I'm not a CPA, though. It depends on how you decide to look at it. I mean, fixtures are affixed to the real property, which makes them a piece of the real property. So I've never encountered that before. It's never been a discussion in our tax planning. So I would imagine it doesn't affect anything. But it probably depends on how your CPA decides that they want to structure everything. I don't see a benefit in structuring it that way. But everybody's tax planning is different. So something to keep in mind. Vaughn is saying current residential agent with commercial multifamily experience any tips on going full time with commercial and opening a brokerage? Man, I touched on going full time commercial a little bit earlier. So I'll save everybody else. Vaughn if you don't mind, just going back and re listening to the to the front of the podcast. As far as opening a brokerage goes. Man, the biggest thing there is is determining your ideal client profile and having a hell of a branding and marketing session campaign, whatever you want to call it.

What is going to differentiate you from everybody else? Right when I started the cowboy group, we were the East Nashville brokerage we were the only ones that were over here. We that's like the 90% of what we did. So everybody in town when they heard East Nashville, they thought of us. Right, my buddy Logan Freeman, exchange care. All they do is handle 1031 exchanges. They want to help people that are in a 1031 exchange, buy real estate. Man, that's a pretty compelling sales pitch, right? You don't want to just be the next commercial real estate brokerage, find something that gives you a competitive advantage. And really lean on that. Guys. I'm sorry. We're out of time. I know there's so many more questions. I will if you could leave them in the regular comments of the video, I promise I will get to them and get you an answer. Thank you all for joining me on this episode of office hours and I will see you all next Tuesday at 8:30am. Central Standard Time. Are you looking to take the next step toward investing in commercial real estate but don't know where to go? Series central offers a comprehensive education and coaching platform designed to help you get started. Our online courses cover a wide range of topics from the fundamentals to advanced strategies, ensuring you have the knowledge and skills needed to thrive in this competitive industry. As a member, you'll gain access to our exclusive online community and monthly group coaching calls, providing you with valuable networking opportunities and personalized guidance from experienced professionals. Whether you're a beginner or looking to take your career to the next level. Cre Central has the resources you need. Visit www dot cre central.com To learn more