Peerless Mill Update, CRE Masterminds, and More (Office Hours)

Each week, I'm going live at 8:30am CST for my "office hours" to answer your questions about commercial real estate on the show. Let's hear what you'd like to know when it comes to brokerage, investment, and development!

Get commercial real estate coaching, courses, and community to jumpstart your investment journey over at CRE Central: www.crecentral.com

Key Takeaways:

• Detailed update on the Peerless Mill project, including challenges with getting necessary approvals from the city, but strong community support for the redevelopment.

• Emphasis on the pros and cons of investing for equity vs. cash flow, and the importance of understanding the investment stage and goals.

• Advice on finding guarantors and capital partners, including leveraging existing networks and relationships.

• Tips on researching commercial lease rates, including using online platforms and connecting with specialized brokers.

• Overview of Tyler's commercial real estate investor mentorship program and the value of the group coaching calls.

• Willingness to provide referrals to reliable commercial real estate brokers in specific markets.

• Upcoming plans for a biographical video and an in-person teaching event on transitioning from residential to commercial real estate.

About Your Host:

Tyler Cauble, Founder & President of The Cauble Group, is a commercial real estate broker and investor based in East Nashville. He’s the best selling author of Open for Business: The Insider’s Guide to Leasing Commercial Real Estate and has focused his career on serving commercial real estate investors.

Episode Transcript:

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Are you looking to take the next step toward investing in commercial real estate? But don't know where to go? Siri central offers a comprehensive education and coaching platform designed to help you get started. Our online courses cover a wide range of topics, from the fundamentals to advanced strategies, ensuring you have the knowledge and skills needed to thrive in this competitive industry. As a member, you'll gain access to our exclusive online community and monthly group coaching calls, providing you with valuable networking opportunities and personalized guidance from experienced professionals, whether you're a beginner or looking to take your career to the next level, cre Central has the resources you need visit www.crecentral.com to learn more. All right, welcome back to the commercial real estate investor podcast live from the cobble group studios. Looks like we're having some technical difficulties today. Thank you for bearing with me. It has been a very interesting week. Very interesting week. You guys know that obviously office hours is here for me to share a little bit of behind the scenes of what's going on in my life, what's going on with the companies, what's going on with our investments. And I've got some unfortunate updates, some things that are going on that I shouldn't have to deal with. I'll definitely be telling you more about that. Looks like living in Atlanta, saying having problems. Yeah, I don't know what's going on. It's doing the same thing on my end too. Yeah, it looks like, oh, Sandy got me all right. Well, sorry about that. Appreciate it. Atlanta, yeah. So anyway, the past week has been really interesting. I mean, one, we'll get to some updates on the peerless mill. We had a pretty big meeting last night, but over the weekend, I some of y'all may know I don't really broadcast it too much, but I was an investor in a bar, and it's weird to say the word was, it was a bar that was at the wash, and it was a fun creative outlet for me, but we had some managerial differences with one of our partners. He decided he wanted to go open up a second bar, and thought that he could stay on with our bar too. We told him, No thank you. Let's, let's start to transfer the bar. And instead, he worked with the team there to basically sabotage the bar. So he left on August 31 we were taking over the management of it and planning on running it just as it had been, hopefully skipping no beats. And we found out over the weekend that the employees that were still there were stealing an immense amount from us. We're talking felony level theft from multiple bartenders that were still there. So we are getting the authorities involved. That is, it's really unfortunate. It's not a path that I would ever have to take. Would ever want to have to take, but don't steal. You know, if you're a good person, you don't have anything to be worried about, right? That, to me, is just crazy. So we're dealing with that. We're doing a lot of investigating. Fortunately, we have cameras in the bar, and they go back 30 days, so we're just reviewing that footage now and preparing everything that we need to to hand it over to the police. It is a police matter. Fortunately, we're not going to have to hire lawyers and do anything civilly, because what they did was a crime. So again, it's just unfortunate all around so we've had to shut the bar down, hopefully temporarily, until we can kind of get this investigation behind us, and then we'll, we'll move forward from there. Anyway, let's get back to something a little bit a little bit more entertaining. I mean, come on, it's on me, right? I jumped into the hospitality business, investing in a bar because I thought it was cool, and it was in one of my buildings. And, you know, hey, let that be a lesson to you that, you know what, maybe you shouldn't just invest in cool concepts just because they're in your buildings. I understand real estate really well. I don't understand hospitality very well. I mean, that's why, even on our hotel, like I manage properties, I hired a third party property management company to manage our boutique hotel, because it's just a different world. It's a, it's a totally different type of people. So, you know, the the other thing, oh, question of the day we gotta, we gotta cover the question of the day qtd is, are you more interested in building equity or building cashflow? Let me know in the comments. Would love to hear what y'all thoughts are on this. So there's a big difference in equity and cash flow, right? I mean, equity is where you're probably not going to be getting any cash flow. To be fair, you're doing something that's heavy value add. You're creating forced appreciation, you're coming in, you're creating a significant amount of value, and then you're probably going to refinance, pull some cash out. Uh, cash flow, it a little bit, or just sell it, take that chunk and move on. If you're investing for cash flow, you're probably not going to have the most stable or nicest property in the world, right? Because if you look at Cap rates and how they work, the lower the cap rate, the more stable the property and the better the better quality tenant you have, right? And so cash flow typically comes from having higher cap rates, which means taking more risk, which is how people try to justify selling some of these assets. So there's pros and cons to each I actually invest a little bit in both, right? You need some that are for cash flow and some that are for the equity. The majority of my investments have actually been all in on building equity, which, you know, I mean, of course, has its downsides, right? Because all of my cash keeps going into building more cash, but there's no cash flow. But I also think that if I was investing strictly for the cash flow, that I wouldn't have nearly as much buying power as I would, and I would actually be restricted in the amount of cash flow I could ever create. So I think there's pros and cons to both, and it depends on what season you are in as an investor, as to which path you were going to take. Other updates from this week, you know, peerless mail. We had a meeting last night where we sat down with the city. It was a city council meeting, pretty big deal, and it was just interesting to see the turnout. I mean, there were an immense amount of people there, and again, I apologize for the wagon for joining me live. I'm not sure what's going on there, but there were a lot of people there last night. I mean, we're talking 80 to 100 people in this room. And I wasn't the only one that was that was calling out some of the issues with with the mayor, but, you know, at the end of the day, my only goal was to just make everything super transparent so everybody knows exactly where the peerless mill project stands and what I need to get it moving forward. And that's what we accomplish. We had a great meeting last night. I think that it was the best case scenario for us. I think it was, it was really good to see just the community support, you know? I mean, when you're working on a project this size, there's always going to be people that are probably going to be against it, right? I mean, that's, that's just the nature of commercial real estate development. But this is one of the reasons why I love that community. I love this project. It used to be the heart of Rossville, Georgia. I mean, the entire town was built around this mill, right? So they are all there wanting to have this revitalized. And I think that we, we are finally the developer that brought the plan that makes sense for them, makes sense for us, makes sense for the future of that city. So pretty neat to see. We dove into, you know, the variance, because really what I need, we went through a rezoning. And you know what? Let me catch you up on purely smell, because I think this will be interesting for some of y'all so we bought it two years ago, and when we bought it, it was zoned for heavy industrial. Well, nobody wants heavy industrial in the middle, middle of their city, right? So we went through a rezoning process to get all of the other mixed uses that we need, office, retail, breweries, you know, you name it. Well, phase one of the project is still light industrial, right? So we're talking light manufacturing, light assembly, we're talking about flex space, right? So think of any kind of flex user. So contractors, HVAC, plumbing, electric, you know, storage, startup companies, e commerce, businesses like that. And we had in self storage, and unfortunately, in the rezoning, when it got to council, some items were removed that we needed to start phase one. So that was about a year ago when that happened. So then we went through an administrative change. Right? The new mayor took office at the beginning of this year of 2024, and we started working with him, putting a plan together to go ahead and get our variance, get our special use permit, because I need a variance for the self climate. I'm sorry. I need a variance for the industrial outdoor storage because with that, the current code requires that we use a or that we build a wrought iron or brick wall, a wrought iron fence or a brick wall to surround three and a half acres of industrial outdoor storage that's unbelievably cost prohibitive. We just can't do that. So we were going to get a variance for a chain link fence with vegetation around it, right, some nice planting that will hide it. And we needed a special use permit to do indoor, climate controlled self storage at the site, which is a great use for one of the buildings there, right? Because it's indoor, so you don't have to see it, right? That's usually everybody's complaining about self storage. They just don't want to see it. Well. This is inside a beautiful historic brick building, and. And we were told back in April that had been submitted to the city attorney, everything would be processed and put before the council in June, we would have our approvals in July, and we'd be able to start working on permits from there. And unfortunately, that's just not what happened. We ended up losing communication with the mayor. He ended up blaming it on the city council, saying that they didn't want it to move forward. I called him out on that in a public forum, and the city council had no idea what he was talking about. And you know, it's just an unfortunate event all around right? So then we had had the meeting last night, I wanted to just catch on exactly where the project was, kind of like what I just told you all, and what our plans are for the future. So of course, we need to to lease up some light industrial that's the easiest, cheapest space for us to do in order for us to start cash flowing the site, to get the money to start reinvesting. But we also announced doing a second version of the wash, so another six Bay food hall with a dog park and a playground, because they don't have anything like that near there. So really a public attraction. So we've got full community support behind us. We're really excited for that. We're really excited to be moving forward. We should be on the agenda next month for our approvals. We'll be, we'll be taking it from there. So that's it. That's, those are the updates for me this week. I know that's that's a little more in depth on on two occurrences than just some other things. I mean, I'm traveling a lot. We I was in Charlotte, I was in Dallas. I'm going to I was in Chattanooga yesterday. This is all literally within the last week, two weeks I was in Chattanooga yesterday. I'm going to Memphis on Thursday to teach a class on on transitioning from residential to commercial real estate. It's absolutely nuts. So welcome. Welcome to my life. Let's open it up to all's questions and get over to that. John is saying, Tyler, good morning. Thank you, as usual, for this podcast. Was curious what salaried plus commission jobs are out there for commercial real estate, John, you know what? I don't know too many jobs that are out there that are salaried plus commission. I think when you get to some of the bigger commercial real estate brokerages, they may be able to or willing to give you a draw, if you have some experience and can prove to them that you'll be able to pay it back, but it's basically a loan, right? You know, if you want to, if you want to get a salary and commission commercial real estate, I mean, in my experience, that's just not a typical offering. You're either salaried or commissioned. So that's, that's what I've seen again. You may be able to find a brokerage where they'll put you on salary. I don't like that option. I don't want salary plus commission, because it caps my upside and I know that I could sell. So that's, that's kind of my my thought on them. Kyle, what's going on? Man, good to see you. Kyle. Kyle saying equity, I'm in it for the long haul. The cash flow will come. I can lean on my w2 for now as I build my large portfolio. That's absolutely true. Yeah, that's, that's how I am. Man, let's go build up all of the equity, and then, you know, let's go pay cash for a shopping center that will then just pay me 234, $100,000 a year, and I don't ever have to worry about it. I'll take that. I'll do that level of investing. John is saying, sorry to hear that bar business is brutal, dude, it is. Do not invest in the bar. Os. You want to be the one running the bar. It's just not worth it. I mean, damn brutal lesson. Robinson saying, Good morning, Tyler, hopefully everything went good with your meeting yesterday. I am more interested in cash flow. Yeah, Robin said, everything went great with the meeting. I mean, like I said, I think it was best case scenario, and more interested in cash flow. I like that. I mean, here's the thing, once you get to 234, $1,000 a month in cash flow, maybe even five, you know, that's, I mean, that's when I, I mean, I did the same thing, but that's when I would start looking at, like, okay, let's build equity. Because you think about, you know, I mean, you could easily do a commercial real estate deal and make two or $3,000 passive a month, right? You think about forced appreciation. You could easily create $100,000 in 12 months of equity, right? So if you're only making two three, let's say you're making $3,000 a month, it'll take you three years to make the same amount of money as it would in one year if you're going on forced depreciation. Now the problem is cash flow, right? You got to have cash flow coming in to justify doing some of the stuff that you have to do. So it's kind of this fine balance. Like, I'd go out there and get that to $3,000 a month in cash flow, just so that you have it right, like, get your rent covered, and then go, go focus on, you know, make $100,000 or more. I mean, I've had some deals where I worked on them for 16 months, and we, and I created multiple six figures of equity in the. Those deals just by coming in, signing some leases. You know, let's see. Charlie's saying restaurants are a great idea when you don't own one, they sure are. I love eating at restaurants. I couldn't imagine having to hire and manage a staff. It's not fun. And he's working on building cash flow for now as well. I love it. Diamond sharp capital is saying Tyler, any recommendations for newer firms to connect with guarantors or capital partners that have the liquidity or lender requirements. We have a potential 504, SBA deal, but we need help. We are building a 17 vendor food hall and entertainment event venue partnered with a consulting company which has built 13 of these. Well, I mean, diamond, the first thing that I would do is lean on that consulting company and ask them, Well, hey, if you've built 13 of these, who has been guaranteeing these notes. The tough thing that I will say is it's very difficult to find somebody that's willing to come in and sign on your note when they don't know you right? And that's why it's so important to always be building relationships in this industry with people that you know could be a potential partner in the future, like if somebody I've had people come and ask me, like, Hey, Tyler, will you sign, you know, on the debt of this project? And you know, in exchange, we'll give you some equity. We'll give you, you know, preferred return, or whatever. And I've entertained it a couple of times, but I almost always turn it down. And some of y'all are probably thinking, well, but Tyler, that's like, you're just signing your name on it, and it's free equity, free money for you know, potentially a good deal, it is, but the downside is massive, right? Because, think about it, if you have the biggest balance sheet you you. You are the guarantor of the deal. You have the biggest balance sheet in the deal. It doesn't matter if, if investors you know, if you're investor A, if investors B, C and D are also signed on to guarantee the loan, when things go south, they're going to look at investor A, who has the biggest balance sheet, and they'll go, well, he can pay us back in full so he can figure it out with his partners, but we're going to go after him, and that's not really a position that I want to be in for 10 or 15% of a deal. So diamond, to answer your question, man. I mean, it's tough. I would just look for you know, who's in your current network. I mean, look, if it's a cool 17 vendor food all, come on, that's cool as hell. If it's really cool, and you've done the homework, you've gotten your offering memorandums together, you've done all of the, you know, financial underwriting, everything that you need there. You shouldn't have a problem finding guarantors, in my opinion, could be, could be interesting. So let's see. Karthik is saying, Good morning, Tyler. I'm looking at acreage in Charlotte. I love Charlotte. I'm trying to figure out the leasing rates in the area. Any pointers, and finding those easily. There's a plaza close by as well. So Karthik, it depends on what you are, look like, what kind of lease rates you're needing. If you just want to get an idea, an idea of retail leasing rates in the area, man, honestly, I would just go on crixy or LoopNet and start diving into, you know, what, what people are asking for rent. So that doesn't mean that that's what they are getting, but that doesn't mean that's what they're asking, which means it's probably pretty close. The other thing you could do is start calling commercial real estate brokers that special brokers that specialize in that specific use and asking them, you know, hey, what are your thoughts on this? What would you do? What do you think? So that's, that's kind of where I would take that. You know, leasing is tough, right? Like, that's, that's the one thing that, if you are not constantly evaluating the market, you're not involved in deals. That's probably the number one thing that commercial, like aspiring or new commercial real estate investors, have an issue with, is, how do I determine what the lease rates are? And there's really only a couple ways to do it. It's looking at what people are asking for rents. You could do that online or calling commercial real estate brokers. That's, that's, it's really it, because it's not like there's some database of leases out there. There are some, you know, I mean, look, costar will say they've got some leases. Some other groups will say they have some leases, but they really don't. I mean, leases are private documents. I'll tell you this, I have 80 or 100 tenants across my portfolio, and I've had hundreds of tenants over the last 10 years. As a broker, a property manager, you know, whatever, I have never shared a single one of those leases with anyone. So if you think about how many leases that that is that just aren't out there in the market? It's quite a bit. So diamond saying completely understand that, Tyler, we are certainly exploring every avenue we can think of, building relationships every day. But I'm just looking for other lines to open up. Thank you, absolutely. I mean, hey, why not somebody watching this might might reach out because you. Update in the live chat. I think that's a brilliant idea. So diamond, just for for future reference, typically what I like to do, I mean, figure out where those investors are going to be, and then go hang out there. You know, I looked at joining a country club for a little while just to rub elbows with those kinds of people. That is not who I am. So I decided not to do that, because I was like, Am I really going to go spend enough time at a country club to justify the amount of money that it costs? No, and I also don't enjoy that lifestyle, right? I mean, dude, I'm a big guy, bearded, covered in tattoos. I'm not the country club guy. But, I mean, hey, that's where they are. You could also join charity boards, and you could start hanging out at real estate investors networking events you could go to. I mean, there are investment conferences like family office conferences and all this kind of stuff. The other way that you can get around a personal guarantee is by bringing more equity to the table. So maybe you have to raise more capital and give a bigger chunk of the deal, but at least you don't have to worry about the guarantee. So it may be worth having the conversation with the bank. See what they think. All right, living in Atlanta saying, I'm interested in your mentorship program. I see several links in the description, which one is about this program I want to invest in flex space around the outskirts of Atlanta. Well, that I did not pay you for that, but I appreciate you asking. So the Siri accelerator program is the one that you'd want to join. That's for commercial real estate investors. That mastermind we've got, I think, 70, almost over 70 members now, which is wild, because we just started this. Like, I mean, I started it a year ago. It was last August, but I didn't actually start it until May 1 of this year. I think we had 10 members as of May 1, and then I just went all in on focusing on the mastermind, and we've added about 60 since the spring. So it's great. It's a phenomenal group. The link is crecentral.com and there's a link in there to book a call with me. You will actually be speaking with me. I don't the mastermind for me is not like this, like big venture that I want to scale to infinity. It is, it is literally a group of people that I hang out with, and we mastermind around how to do commercial real estate better, right? And so I'm very picky about who I let in, because I spend a lot of time on it. But if you book a call to talk to me about the mastermind, you will be talking with me. I take it very, very seriously. She's asking, can you describe the group coaching? Yeah, absolutely. So the way that it works is we, we have weekly group coaching calls Mondays at 5:30pm Central Standard Time. Marcus is saying great, great program. Would would tell anyone to join. Marcus is one of our students. Kyle wallet is one of our students. Charlie Stanfield is actually one of the students. We've had a bunch of guys jumping in on the live stream, which is cool to see. Thank you for the plug, Marcus. I appreciate that you should go watch Marcus's video. By the way, he's the one that we did the ground up flex videos, my last video on the channel, beautiful project. I mean, he's doing what we like to call luxury flex, and he absolutely crushed it. Charlie's saying I could double down on that. So, so, living in Atlanta, it's, it's Mondays at 5:30pm central standard time is when we do the group coaching calls. And it's a mix of me, my teaching subjects. It's 100% driven by the students. So if a student comes in and says, Hey, Tyler, I need to learn more about seller financing, because I'm negotiating that with a seller, great. Let's talk about that. So we actually had that three or four weeks ago. I had a student ask about that, so I put together a 20 minute presentation on seller financing, including, here's all of the pros and cons for the sellers that you could share with them. Here's a script on how to pitch it. You know, here's how to here's like, seven different ways to structure it. So it was a great discussion. After the presentation. We all talked about it, and then we ended up we were typically diving into deals. So more often than not, students are bringing deals to the table, and we're reviewing them, right? So let's, let's look at the marketing. Let's look at the surveys. Let's look at your, you know, civil engineering drawings. Let's, let's look at, you know, what your lease rates might be, let's review your underwriting. So, I mean, it's, it's kind of a, you know, hey, I'm going to give you a library of additional resources that you can't find anywhere else. And, you know, I'm going to be there looking over your shoulder, making sure you're doing it right. So that's it. Kyle, jump back in. Yes. Do it? Great group. Dustin's also in the group. Great video. Marcus and Tyler. That's funny. I appreciate you guys. You are great. Let's see. Karthik is saying, Do you have any references for realtors who deal with Flex spaces, who can help in the Charlotte area? You know what? Karthik? That's a great question. I don't off the top of my head, but I know a lot of people in Charlotte. So. So let's do this. If you, if you want a reference to somebody in Charlotte that does flex, shoot me an email office at the cobble group.com I'll text my buddy Adam. You've probably seen him on my broker's roundtable. He is the go to retail broker in Charlotte. So I'll give him a call and I'll see who, who he would recommend living in Atlanta saying thank you. I'll book a call soon. Looking forward to connecting with you. It's, it's a lot of fun. We really enjoy. I mean, I just, I love talking about commercial real estate, right? It's very, very self fulfilling. For sure. We're gonna have a we're gonna have an interesting video coming out next to me. It's one that I haven't really done before, but I've been asked a couple of times, I'm not going to sit here and be like everybody's been asking for it. I have been asked a couple of times, though, more about, like, my background and how I got started and all of that. So we're doing a little biographical video on on me and getting started in the industry and kind of my journey. So you all can get to know me a little bit better. It's interesting. So, you know, the camera team followed me around working on the farm, because that's, you know, what I love doing on the weekends, is working on the farm, and just, you know, talking about, talking about sales and commercial real estate and all the fun stuff. So it's that'll be a good one that should be coming out on Thursday, and I will be down in Memphis teaching, teaching a class that'll be my first actual in person teaching on this subject. I've done a lot of live streams, like webinars on transitioning from residential to commercial real estate, and that is seeming to be the most popular topic that I could talk on, which is pretty fun. It sounds like there's a lot of residential real estate investors out there that are kind of getting a little tired of dealing with with either residential tenants or multifamily assets. I know Kyle can relate to that. He had a fun project in Kansas City. I mean, I just, I couldn't touch residential. It's, it's not for any investment purposes. I mean, look, I think, I think residential, I think multifamily can make a lot of money, like residential can make Okay, money for me, honestly, the biggest thing is, like, I just don't, if a business doesn't pay me rent, I have no mercy. No mercy at all. This is a business decision. Get the hell out of my building, right? If you can't pay me, you know, rent, yeah, move on. But if it's like, you know, somebody's grandma or, you know, a single mom and they can't pay their rent, like, I just, I don't want to deal with that, I would be the softy that's like, no, it's fine. Just stay like you know, we'll figure it out. And that's not a good investment decision, right? So I would rather have my charitable contributions separate from from my business decisions. That's just me personally. That's probably a lot deeper than y'all really care to hear. Jared is saying, Tyler releasing up a small space in a coordinary market. Oh, court, wow. That's a wow. So be on tertiary in New Mexico. Thoughts on approach, lease terms, step ups. We are not local, and aren't working with a broker yet. Jared, here's the thing, if you're going to a small, small market like that, you're probably not even going to have a broker that you're going to really be able to put it in perspective, like even when we go to Chattanooga, Keller Williams is the dominant commercial real estate brokerage there. I don't know any other market in which Keller Williams is the dominant commercial real estate brokerage. So, I mean, honestly, what I would say is I would just negotiate as best as you can and make sure that it works for your business. Right at the end of the day, the market rate is what you're willing to pay, because you are the market. Yeah. He's saying, yeah. I don't think a broker would take this one. Yeah, probably not. I would just make sure that the numbers work for your business, that you feel good about the terms. I mean, here's the thing, how much money do you have to invest into it? Because I think that that's going to help determine how long of a lease term you want. If it's if it's a very risky market, I would go for as flexible of a lease as possible. They're going to not have as much leverage, right? It's not like they're going to say, No, you have to sign a 10 year lease, because there may not be another person that comes along for a while to sign the same lease. So you can say, Look, I'll sign a six month a 12 month lease. You know, with 412 month renewals, right? That way you can unilaterally renew every year if it makes sense for you to do. And you're you're really mitigating your risk over the long term. Because, let's be honest, if you get in there, you do the venture, you got to do it for 12 months before you even figure out if you know what you're doing. Then it's probably another 12 months for you to really get everything in place, to start making money. So you want to have at least, you know, one to two years of testing it out, and then after that, you know, you can kind of make your decision based on, you know, what you think is best. Appreciate you guys for. Joining me today live for office hours. We're doing this every Tuesday at 8:30am Central Standard Time, as long as I don't have a conflict, which I have a feeling that I'm gonna have a couple of conflicts coming up, but I will always post on Instagram if that is the case. Appreciate you guys, and we'll see y'all in the next one. Are you looking to take the next step toward investing in commercial real estate, but don't know where to go. Series central offers a comprehensive education and coaching platform designed to help you get started. Our online courses cover a wide range of topics, from the fundamentals to advanced strategies, ensuring you have the knowledge and skills needed to thrive in this competitive industry. As a member, you'll gain access to our exclusive online community and monthly group coaching calls, providing you with valuable networking opportunities and personalized guidance from experienced professionals, whether you're a beginner or looking to take your career to the next level, cre Central has the resources you need. Visit www.crecentral.com to learn more you.