305. Unconventional Ways to Make Money from Commercial Real Estate - Brokers Round Table

 
 

Unconventional Ways to Make Money from Commercial Real Estate | Brokers Round Table


Commercial properties aren’t just about traditional leasing anymore. With the right creativity and strategy, owners and brokers can tap into unique revenue streams that maximize their property’s earning potential. This discussion explores unconventional ways to monetize commercial real estate beyond standard tenant agreements.

Key Takeaways:

  • Unconventional ways to monetize commercial real estate include renting out parking spaces, using excess land for storage containers, implementing digital billboards/signage, and leveraging technology and experiential elements.

  • In the industrial sector, there is a "tale of two cities" scenario, with oversupply in big box warehousing but high demand for smaller manufacturing spaces.

  • Retail faces challenges due to supply constraints and high construction costs, making it difficult for tenants to afford the rents.

  • The office market is poised for a potential bull market, but will require creative destruction and adaptation to changing space needs post-pandemic.

  • Integrating technology, such as VR, digital signage, and IoT, can enhance the value and attractiveness of commercial properties.

Adam Williams, Legacy Real Estate

Chad Griffiths, NAI Commercial

Jesse Fragale, Avison Young

Check out CRE Central: www.crecentral.com



About Your Host:

Tyler Cauble, Founder & President of The Cauble Group, is a commercial real estate developer and investor based in East Nashville. He’s the best selling author of Open for Business: The Insider’s Guide to Leasing Commercial Real Estate and has focused his career on serving commercial real estate investors.


Episode Transcript:

Tyler Cauble 0:00

This episode of the commercial real estate investor podcast is brought to you by my cre accelerator mastermind, where you'll get access to my step by step investment blueprint, essentially a library of resources on how to invest in commercial real estate. You'll get connected to a supportive community of other commercial real estate investors that are doing projects just like you. You'll get personalized coaching and feedback from me every step of the way. Go to www dot cre central.com to learn more. Welcome back to the commercial real estate investor podcast. We are coming at you with another brokers round table today, diving into unconventional ways that you can make money on commercial real estate. As brokers, we get to analyze deals all the time, and because of that, we have seen some very interesting things that people have done to make money on commercial real estate that is outside of the norm, right? This? We're not talking about traditional leasing that's boring. We want to talk about the weird things. So I think we're gonna have a really fun conversation. Chad Griffiths is with me, as always. Jesse and Adam may be joining another running behind that is the joy of being a broker. You've got a lot of meetings and a lot of sales, and sometimes those calls bleed over. But Chad, excited to be diving into this with you before we do. You've got a book coming out, man, Tell us. Tell us a little bit about the book. Let's go ahead and start teasing

Speaker 1 1:24

it. Yeah, I do. It's hoping to launch it may 1. I've got it with a copy editor right now and just having a few more things added in, including a preface from you. So I I'm super excited. It's something I've been working on for over a year. Everything had to do about industrial real estate. So it'd work for someone just getting into the industry, or someone that's already in and just wants to fine tune their skills. It's a deep dive into everything. There's, I have a whole chapter on sprinklers as an example. So it's, it's a comprehensive book.

Tyler Cauble 1:54

I love it, yeah, I mean, but that's, that's what it takes, right? If you're gonna write the book, The thesaurus, the Bible on industrial real estate. You can't not have a chapter about sprinklers.

Speaker 1 2:08

It'd be a failure. It'd be an income. What's the point? Yeah, yeah. So it's, I'm 36 chapters right now on it. So, yeah, it's, it's been a long time coming, but yeah, super excited to get it out.

Tyler Cauble 2:21

That's great, man. Well, let me know when it's available for pre order, because I will order one for every single person in my mastermind. I think that would be a great gift to give everybody. So I appreciate that. Thanks. Thanks for writing it, man. Like I'm working on my second book right now. I released my first one. Writing a book is like getting a tattoo I did my first one when I was 25 So seven years ago, and when you go through it, it is an unbelievably painful process. And by the time you're done, you're like, you know what? I'm really glad that I did this. And then you start to forget, over the years, how painful the process was, and then you want to do it again. Is just like getting a tattoo. So women

Speaker 1 3:00

might say it's like having having a kid. They might use that analogy.

Tyler Cauble 3:04

It's like having a baby. You know, it's a painful process. You complain about it the whole time you're doing it, and then as soon as it's there, you're like, All right, let's get another

Speaker 1 3:14

one. I've got a couple tattoos. And funny enough, I went through a spell when I was younger and I did the same thing. I was like, I just need more of these. And then I think I did hit that point where I was like, ah, you know what? That was pretty painful. And I haven't, I haven't had one toy 20 years now, but maybe I get the itch to add one and again. Yeah,

Tyler Cauble 3:34

good for you. I mean, obviously, sorry guys for the tangent, but yeah, I haven't gotten a tattoo in a few years now. And I'm kind of surprised, because I thought that I was just going to keep going to keep going and keep going, but, man, eventually they just get so painful. You're like, I'm just, it's not, it's not worth it at this point, but add the other sleeve. Ah, you know, that's, that's what I'm debating right now. It's like, Should I do the other sleeve, or should I keep it like one sleeve top and one bear? I don't know. We'll see Adam's jumping in now. He's like, What the hell are you guys talking Yeah, wow.

Unknown Speaker 4:05

Some hard hitting interview questions.

Tyler Cauble 4:08

It sounds like, yeah, really nailing you with

Speaker 2 4:10

the tattoo talk. A lot of people have been asking me about my skincare routines.

Speaker 1 4:16

That's what I'm here to talk about, your support, how your beard is looking so magical.

Tyler Cauble 4:23

We need hair tips, dude. I mean, you've got the flow, man. You know,

Speaker 2 4:27

I'll give you guys 10 minutes to stop talking like this. Oh my gosh, yeah. Oh, 10 minutes. That's it.

Tyler Cauble 4:35

That's great. Well, guys, let's go ahead and jump on in. So like I said today, we're talking about unconventional ways to make money from commercial real estate. And there's so many ways that you can monetize a property outside of what you would think is normal. For example, here at my office building, we rented 17 spaces, 17 parking spaces, because I didn't need all of that parking to a group that rents Teslas for people that are coming in town to national. All right, that's 100 bucks a parking spot a month for 17 spaces. So 1700 bucks that just fell out of the sky. And so Chad, I want to, I want to turn it over to you first man. I mean, on the industrial front, let's talk about, like, micro monetization, right, under utilized spaces within properties. I mean, what, what have you seen that's interesting or creative, where owners are turning smaller or unused portions of a property into something that's revenue generating. I've got a

Speaker 1 5:29

great one, and it's a client of mine that just did this two years ago now, so I've toured it with them. Fascinating. What he did. So they've got about an eight acre site that they have for a truck terminal. The terminal is actually pretty small, the building itself, but as you can appreciate, there's just a lot of tractor trailers and overflow on there. They had a boat in an acre of excess land that wasn't being used at all. So I think there was 60 in total. It might have even been a few more than that, 60 sea cans, 20 foot sea can so not even the full 40 foot equivalent 20 foot sea cans. They stacked, actually, no, they didn't stack any of these. They're all just right on the ground, and they rent them out for $100 a month. So for somebody that wants self storage, these are cheaper than any of the competitors, because most of them are now climate controlled buildings. They become really expensive, these self storage buildings. So they're cheaper than anything on the market, and the person gets a 20 foot deep self storage unit that they can come and go whenever they want. It's very easy maintenance. They've got a computer system on there, and they're, they're almost, I think, their fault. At the time that I went through it, they were full and they had a waiting list. They were actually thinking of doubling the amount of space that they had and actually reducing their core business operations, actually taking some of their fleet off, because it was more lucrative to actually have these storage containers on there. So that's the that's the one thing anybody that's sitting on excess land in the industrial space if they're not utilizing it, and it's already been prepared, whether it's graveled or asphalt or concrete, and it's fenced and there's already security in there. Look to what other options you can do to just rent out that yard space, whether it's individual ones like that, where someone's just renting a storage unit, or whether someone needs to park excess inventory or or vehicles, or anything in there, that is a really easy way to and there's a shortage of it too. There's not a lot of those being marketed. So find a way to do it. If you've got a client that that has excess land, I mean, you're you're ingratiating yourself and making yourself a very vital component of their business. If you're helping them, even though the fee might not be great, even if you're just helping them do it, you're you're getting their business forever. So that's anything with excess land. I think there's a gold mine there. I'm

Tyler Cauble 7:51

gonna ask a dumb question is, see, can Canadian for shipping container, it

Unknown Speaker 7:56

is, yeah, you got, you don't say sea can in that

Tyler Cauble 8:00

is so much cooler than shipping container, I'm gonna have to start calling sea CADS. That's

Speaker 1 8:06

awesome. I didn't know that that was a Canadian term. Usually, the Canadian terms are for, like, really stupid things, like the loony which just sounds stupid. Sea can actually sounds pretty cool, but originated in Canada. Yeah,

Tyler Cauble 8:18

that's awesome. I love it. Okay, we're gonna have to start using sea kids. Everybody make note of that Adam retail is, is really interesting, because I feel like retail probably takes advantage of, like, underutilized spaces better than, really, the other asset classes, right? I mean, you've got pop ups, you've got, you know, I mean, food trucks, things like that. I mean, what have you seen on the retail front that's that's creative and interesting ways to monetize.

Speaker 2 8:43

You know, we've mentioned a few of them. The pop ups is definitely something that people utilize. Like, for example, I've got a I've got a landlord right now that we're trying to put a deal together for a Metallica merch pop up, because they're playing at our big arena here in a couple months, and they're like, We want to be there for two weeks. We'll pay you rent. We'll pay you percentage rent. You know, we need to be within X number of yards of the arena. And some other interesting ones that I've seen, I mean, some that we've touched on right like using a parking lot to add a drive up ATM electric charging stations, a drive through like stand alone coffee barista, right where the guy, just like comes in and and takes a postage stamp and turns it into revenue. Unfortunately, in retail leases, you have to be very careful with a few things. One, everybody wants term, right? So unlike the shipping container, the C can approach where at the end of the day, like you're probably only signing three months, six month leases. A lot of these leases are 10 years, so that that can be problematic. The other thing is view corridor restrictions, if you have savvy retail user. A lot of times they have really strict rules about what can be in between, like their sight line, like their front door and a highway or an entrance point and rescue address point. So those are a couple things to keep in mind. Another one that I've seen that was kind of interesting is, if you have a concept like specifically restaurant where you've over the kitchen, we always say, like you, let the chef design a kitchen, which means it's just massively overbuilt. We've seen people go in and actually do ghost kitchens out of out of their current restaurant, where they have other people that are coming in and leasing it at off hours to prep or using it as a hub for their food because in Charlotte, you have to have, like, a Commissary Kitchen of record when you're going in and setting up your food truck. So there's a lot of creative ways, but just make sure to check the boxes, like another one that we're doing now, and I'll shut up. We've got a beautiful project that we're doing, it right in the middle of South End. So Maine and Maine, best sub market in Charlotte the office is done, and the retail has taken a while to get finished out, because it takes so long to build these things. So we went out and found this amazing coffee user called Astoria coffee, and they had this small, little, like mini Airstream looking, little coffee cart that they just wheeled in had their own generator. They were serving coffee in, like, from the first time I talked to him, to the first latte was like three weeks, which, in my, in my world, you can't even get, you know, a permit set drawn, much less approved. So, so we see some really cool ideas here and there.

Tyler Cauble 11:45

Yeah, I love getting creative on that stuff. If you're, if you're joining us live, question of the day, what's an unconventional idea that you'd love to try or see an action on a commercial property to monetize it? Drop it in the comments. Let us know. I mean, Adam on that front. You know, I've always thought a lot of these retail spaces are paying a lot of rent, and they're open for like, 810, 12 hours a day, right? So you basically have half a day where, if you can do the ghost kitchen at night for PrEP, or you can, you know, rent it out to someone else. It makes a lot of sense, like, why doesn't the coffee shop become a bar at night? Right? Right. We actually had a group here in Nashville, a couple of bodies of mine that are partners in some deals with me. They had a real estate company. What they noticed was that all of their brokers were working out of coffee shops. So they're like, why bother spending all this money on an office space that none of the people use. So what they did is they started a coffee shop that now has, like, I think they're working on their third and fourth locations, that has a conference room and an office in the back, and so their office is monetized. Like, that's a brilliant way of doing that. Really cool. Jesse, speaking of office, yeah, Isn't that brilliant? I'm like, Man, I should have thought of that such a great idea. Jesse on the office front, man. I mean, what are you saying? You know, co working space, that's kind of old news at this point, but that was a creative way to monetize additional office space at one point. What else are you seeing these days?

Speaker 3 13:19

Yeah. Like, we've with additional or excess space, everything from amenitizing it for the building to having, you know, depending on the actual building itself, having data centers, Co Location, depending on what, where the excess is. A lot of times for us, it's not like I said earlier, the amenity amenitizing The space. So, you know, landlords, like you said, they you have a bunch of people using coffee shops, and then they just decide, why don't we just put an actual shared space within the building, and it is extra income in the sense that it's kind of offsetting the cost of it. So a lot of times those landlords, they're not downloading those costs, you know, though, it's not going to increase their additional rent, but it'll offset, you know, the income that they do have in there will offset the cost of maybe having some one, you know, one or two people to run the place on a day to day basis. We're starting to see a lot more of that in general, but yeah, in terms of, I don't think we have the brightest ideas, or we're not as savvy as some of the other stuff you see where, you know, cell towers, and, you know, all kinds of stuff in the industrial on the land side, the one thing, and I'm not sure if this is different for your market, but in our market, you can't advertise on residential properties, so even apartment buildings. So when it comes to billboards, any ads, any commercial ads, they have to go on commercial buildings here, so that's something we see in our market. And you know, that's going to depend on, you know, where you are in the city or outside of the city, to kind of necessitate, or, you know, if you have the foot traffic or highways where you can it's useful for you to actually kind of book billboards and signs up.

Tyler Cauble 14:58

Yeah, I've, I've always. Thought that, like, especially on the larger office buildings and multifamily properties, especially like some of these larger office buildings, will have a gym, right, yeah, as an amenity for their tenants. And that's very common in apartments, like, Why not rent that out to a personal trainer, right? Like, if nothing else, they have to maintain and take care of it, so you're at least offloading the expense. And then it adds, you know, an additional amenity and a way to monetize it in different ways. I've always thought that could be an interesting approach, and I've seen a couple of groups do that, but nobody's really blanketed that out. So I wonder, I wonder, why?

Speaker 3 15:32

Well, just to cut on that point, one of the biggest, largest new developments in Toronto, CIBC square, and what they've done is, pretty much, they've decked it out with, you know, full kind of food court area that's done up really high end restaurants. But also, they've done a gym where, I think the cost was so high that they still had to charge something, but it's, it's nominal, it's like, 40 bucks a month, or, you know, compared to what, you know, 200 $300 gyms in the city monthly. It's pretty good.

Tyler Cauble 16:03

Yeah, that's not bad at all. Chat, Jesse mentioned some, some, you know, billboards and telecom towers and things like that. I mean, that's obviously more common in the industrial space. You guys have way more land than most of us in office, retail and hospitality have. I mean, what are you seeing in terms of billboards? Do you have or, you know, cell towers, stuff like that? Do you have clients that are actively doing that? And if so, what does that look like?

Speaker 1 16:29

Yeah, I have, we actually have one on a building that I own. It's, it's an industrial building, but it's on kind of a busier road, and we get $8,000 a year for that billboard and do nothing become billboard company manages all the ads and everything, and they have a separate business agreement for that. But yeah, it's $8,000 a year just to have a billboard on the property. So if you can go and do that, it's huge where I think that there's even a cooler or more, more potential opportunities on a digital billboard, because if you get 8000 for and I'm guessing, we probably have 20,000 vehicles a day on our road, so it's all based on volume and and who's driving by there. But if you can have a digital one, we looked into it, and for our municipality, there's a law that you can only have so many on any given corridor. So we weren't able to do it. But had we, had we been able to, we could have charged $25,000 a year for that digital billboard. So there's huge opportunity, whether you can just get a basic one where they come and change it manually, or where they can change the ads digitally and just run a new ad every 15 seconds. Huge opportunity. That's pure noi. So just like quick math, you go and cap, uh, capitalize the income stream on on a billboard, just how much you're adding the value of the building, huge. So, yeah, anyone that has any type of normal or above normal traffic, if they're on somewhat of a main road. Look into a billboard. Instant value. Add instant noi, instant value to the building.

Tyler Cauble 18:08

Yeah, I've, I've got a billboard on my office building here, and I hate it, just because I don't like seeing it, right? But at the end of the day, you're like, Yeah, but it's 750 bucks a month, and you don't have to do anything for it. It's kind of hard to argue with.

Speaker 1 18:23

I love that billboard, and I don't even have to look at it. I love your billboard. That's huge. You should take a picture of it. I want to see

Tyler Cauble 18:35

out there and take a selfie with my billboard. How this thing makes me 750 a month. Adam retail is really, really, really good at the experiential side of things in the community based events. And actually, when I came up to Charlotte, I got to tour a couple of properties with your partner that were doing a phenomenal job of, you know, treating these properties basically like event venues, right? What do you see with regards to that front and how can that be monetized? Or how does it create monetization in a roundabout way?

Speaker 2 19:10

I think that if you're not thinking about how to, I don't even want to call it monetize, but how to Experient. I just made that word up, that word doesn't Experient. Yeah, yes, you can. I think that secant is probably better. But like, if you're not building your entire, and I'm even talking, I'm not even talking about the actual concept, right? Because if you're not making your concept and experience now, then you're not trying that hard. But I think you have to weave moments into the actual project itself, right? Like, like, you're, you have to think about, you know, I know it's super cliche to say Instagram moments these days, but, but that's what people really care about, right? Like, that's, that's it. Really, really matters to the young people that are out there using these things on a daily basis. So so if you're not really thinking about how to engage with the community, whether that be your immediate surroundings and neighbors or your community of people that that love, love your project, love coming to your space, then then you're missing out on a tremendous amount of opportunity. And it's hard to point to like that billboard, right? It's hard to point to the experience noi generator, right? And I think I've told this story before. I was helping an institutional investor reprogram their downstairs, and we took, I'm not going to mention names, but we took this old FBI holding cell and turned it into three really cool retail users. So I'm sitting, I'm sitting here in front of, like, a bunch of stuffed shirts, right? And I'm like, listen, we're gonna, we're gonna take it, we're gonna make it super cool, you know? Yada yada yada, doing my little song and dance, singing for my supper. And he stops. He's like, let me stop you real quick at him. He's like, he's like, how many basis points do I get for cool? And he's like, like, looks around. Everybody's like, laughing. I mean, then we did it, we were able to totally change the property, and they sold it for a shit ton of money. So he actually did get some basis points for cool, but, but if you get developers that don't understand that, they are going to miss out on a major form of monetization.

Tyler Cauble 21:19

I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's, it's tough to quantify the basis points around cool, but I've never seen it not work out right, like it, it adds something, and if nothing else, it means that a tenant's probably gonna lease faster, or you'll create some sort of competition there to get that lease, simply because you've created something unique that people want to be around, right? I think that that really, really matters. Jesse, on the on the office front, when it comes to tech enabled properties, right? That is that has been a big thing. Internet of Things. You know, we're talking like digital concierge services and AR and VR driven leasing. I mean, we actually were doing property tours through VR, you know, six years ago, give or take. That's not necessarily on a monetization front, but it can cut down on costs. I mean, what are you seeing in terms of property owners implementing just tech into their office portfolios? Yeah,

Speaker 3 22:15

so like two things on that. One is, we were just talking about this, so I'll put this in two frames. We have a pitch coming up next week, and then we had a pitch a few months ago. The pitch a few months ago, we won, and part of our solution was a tech driven solution. The pitch that we have for next week, we have unbuilt, 42,000 square feet of office that needs to be leased. Cushman had it for a number of years. Couldn't lease it. It's the same story of, do we, does the landlord put the money in to build it out, or do we deck it out, get VR system so that, you know, we can really put some decent amount of money, but nowhere near a full build out, into the tech so that people can kind of visualize it. So now we're kind of contemplating and how we want to approach that. Maybe, you know, if the landlord is adamant about not spending money until they find the right tenant, which is kind of the chicken and egg thing happening in office right now, we're exploring VR, and I think the technology is starting to get a lot better, to where it was, like five years ago, when you're just like, this is okay, but, you know, you got older guys who are getting dizzy, you don't really see the space completely. Now, the pitch that we did a couple months ago, which we won, part of what we did is we saw that there was this mixed use development in like Western Canada and Burnaby, and they used basically a LED screen on the building that was hung so it's led, but it's not like a solid piece. It's kind of like strong so you can see out. And what we found was we started to engage groups about advertising and using directories. Now, obviously this all has to be to code in your area. There's certain illumination bylaws depending on the city, but once we started engaging with companies with these directory science, the amount of monthly income some of these can generate is incredible. And what's great with digital signs and the technology is that they're not static, right? You could, you could basically have somebody from, you know, this hour to this hour that gets to advertise in this hour to this hour, and it's all programmed, and it's just like, you know, somebody putting a billboard on your property. But there's just more flexible. More flexibility to it. So we, you know that part of partly the reason we won the pitch, I think, was bringing technology to the forefront with commercial buildings, where you don't see it very often, especially on the office side, takes us a while to get up to speed with tech. Yeah,

Tyler Cauble 24:36

that's right. I mean, I've been lamenting the fact that commercial real estate has been stuck in the 1980s since I got into since I got into it, and it seems like we're here within the past couple of years. It's actually speeding like the early 2000s now, yeah, yeah, that's right, operating on Windows 98 Yeah. Let's catch it up. Well, gentlemen, with the with the remaining, you know, four or five minutes that we have left with. Just love. Here with regards to your business, your asset class moving into this market, right? Which I think it's important to be considering all strategies for generating rental income. What's at the forefront of your mind as you're moving forward through 2025 Chad, we'll kick it off with you.

Speaker 1 25:19

Yeah, I'll try to keep it succinct so the other guys don't feel pressured for time. I think that there's going to be a tale of two, two subcategories of industrial this year. There's going to be big box warehousing, which has been overbuilt in almost every market in North America. And then there's going to be all the other industrial so mid Bay, small bay, flex manufacturing, properties that there hasn't been a lot of it, that inventory being added, and I think the economy is still going to continue to grow, population is still going to continue to grow. So there's going to be need for that small, medium Bay manufacturing space, which is under supplied, and then we have an oversupply that we have to work through on the big box. So I think there's a tendency to group industrial together to one asset class, much like office and retail. You guys feel the same thing, but there really will. People are gonna have to drill down and say there's, you hear a national stat. Let's say the national stat says it's 6% vacancy. Well, that could be, but it could be a 1% vacancy if you look for small bays in Nashville, and it could be 15% if you look for a big box warehouse outside of a major city that overbuilt. So it's really going to be drilling down, and it's just going to be like Dickens said, Tale of Two Cities. It's gonna be the tale of two sub asset categories for industrial. I love it. I think that's, it doesn't sound nearly

Tyler Cauble 26:41

as as poetic as not as sexy. I mean, you might not be able to write a whole, you know, best selling novel around that, but

Unknown Speaker 26:47

stopped at sea can.

Tyler Cauble 26:52

Dude, I love that. Sea can is so cool. Uh, Adam, what about you? Man,

Speaker 2 26:57

honestly, retail is is in a tough spot right now because of the supply constraint, retail is it's not like industrial, where it's like zoning and like hub driven, like people really want to be in these little nodes, and there's just not a lot of supply. So we're seeing, we're seeing not a lot of supply. And if, if people do have space, the rent has gotten pushed to a point, just through construction costs and and, and a lack of supply, to a point where very few people can actually pay the rent. So it's, it's just creating a little bit of, like a, like a static state in retail and, and there's just not a tremendous amount of supply on the horizon. So unfortunately, there's there. I think there's less deals getting done, because there's just less, less deals to do, and there's less people that can afford to expand right now with with the rates as high as they are, that said, I mean, it's a fairly strong market. I'm lucky, because I'm in Charlotte, but there are some headwinds because of those reasons. I would say it's going

Tyler Cauble 27:59

to be interesting. Jesse, take us home. Man,

Speaker 3 28:03

you know, I think office is due for for a bull market. Right now we're, I think unfortunately, right now, you know, it's, it's definitely going to be specific to the markets, right everybody, even that, the cycles are all slightly different in different markets, for our market here, I think we really are in what feels like the beginning of the next cycle, and then all these tariffs came in, and all of like this political uncertainty in our country. So right now, I'm still cautiously optimistic that interest rates are going to go slowly come down in Canada, provided there isn't via political kind of outlier event that happens here. But in terms of the market itself, I do think that we did need a little bit of the creative destruction that happened and is continuing to happen in the office market, where there was just, we built a lot of office and it was not as efficiently used, and still isn't as it could be. So I think companies are getting leaner. They're trying to understand what they need if it's four four times in the office, we're hearing a lot about, you know, four and a half days a week, or three and a half days a week, and that's, I think there's going to be some, you know, reality as to when the dust settles. Maybe that's four days a week in our market. But I'm still, you know, I love office. I still think it's going to be a part of part of of our market. It's just going to, I think it's going to continue to transform, as it has over the last three to five years.

Tyler Cauble 29:29

Well, based on, based on all these tariffs, man, you guys might be able to build some stick built office buildings for a lot cheaper than United States is going to so I would imagine you might be able to attract some new tenants your way.

Unknown Speaker 29:41

We might have a lot of aluminum here in the next little

Unknown Speaker 29:43

while. Yeah, no kidding, yeah.

Tyler Cauble 29:51

What a nightmare. Gentlemen, thanks for joining me. If you're listening, don't forget to like and subscribe and leave us a review if you're listening on Spotify or Apple podcast. Asked. We will be back in a couple weeks with another round of brokers round table. We'll see y'all then. This

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