Determining GP Splits, Leasing Big Box Retail, Leasing Flex Space (Office Hours)
Tyler discusses the transformation of office space and the need for adaptability in the industry, highlighting career opportunities and entrepreneurial growth within his businesses. He emphasizes the importance of gaining experience, conducting market research, and finding the right tenants in commercial real estate investments. Cauble also shares insights on how to successfully invest in commercial real estate, including finding the right developer partner, hiring a broker specializing in flex space, and having good marketing.
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Key Takeaways:
Office space has evolved significantly, shifting from traditional to open floor plans to remote work, similar to the changes seen in retail
Cauble is hiring for an office manager and integrator roles at his company
Cauble is organizing an in-person commercial real estate conference in Nashville this fall
Cauble and Logan Freeman are launching a commercial real estate brokerage mastermind on October 1, 2024
Cauble provided advice on calculating GP percentage for capital raises, the importance of having an active role when raising capital, and the challenges of wholesaling commercial real estate compared to residential
Cauble emphasized the value of gaining experience working at another brokerage before starting your own, and the need to prioritize your skills and goals when considering running a brokerage
Cauble provided tips on tenant selection, including being cautious of auto mechanics and thoroughly vetting potential tenants
About Your Host:
Tyler Cauble, Founder & President of The Cauble Group, is a commercial real estate broker and investor based in East Nashville. He’s the best selling author of Open for Business: The Insider’s Guide to Leasing Commercial Real Estate and has focused his career on serving commercial real estate investors.
Episode Transcript:
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Are you looking to take the next step toward investing in commercial real estate but don't know where to go? Series central offers a comprehensive education and coaching platform designed to help you get started. Our online courses cover a wide range of topics, from the fundamentals to advanced strategies, ensuring you have the knowledge and skills needed to thrive in this competitive industry. As a member, you'll gain access to our exclusive online community and monthly group coaching calls, providing you with valuable networking opportunities and personalized guidance from experienced professionals. Whether you're a beginner or looking to take your career to the next level, cre Central has the resources you need. Visit www dot cre central.com. To learn more. Welcome back to the commercial real estate investor podcast live from the cowboy group Studios here in Nashville, Tennessee, as always, today, we are back for another episode of office hours if you have questions about commercial real estate and you would like for me to answer them jump in live on YouTube. Tuesdays at 8:30am Central Standard Time happy to dive into those. We also give you updates on what I've been up to the past week. And I have something new for you all today, we're going to do something that I am calling like Quick Tip Tuesday. I don't know if you guys like it, we'll keep it up. But I studied commercial real estate quite a bit. I started the market, I studied the business of commercial real estate. And I figured you know what, why don't I start doing some mini presentations in these in these office hours. So let's go ahead and take a look at what I've got for you today. It's something that I wanted to put together to help you guys really reframe your minds around the evolution of office space, considering what has happened in that market over the past few years. So first, I want to talk about mail delivery. That market has changed and evolved significantly over the years, started off by horse, then it moved to car, then it moved to plane. And now for the most part, we're sending mail over email. Just because the way that it has been utilized and delivered doesn't mean that mail has necessarily changed, we're still sending messages to each other. It's just different now than it used to be back then, office space has undergone a very similar shift, we used to have much more traditional office spaces, it hadn't really changed for decades. But if you think about how quickly everything else in our lives, I mean, look at the iPhone, look at how much this thing has changed in the last 10 years. Office hadn't really done that for quite some time. So it's just playing catch up. We moved from traditional office space to more open floor plans back in 2008. A lot of companies in the great financial crisis, were trying to figure out how they can make their rent more affordable per employee. So they just started packing more employees into these open floor plans, then we move towards a pretty heavy co working shift and some work from home. And now we're kind of waiting for what the next iteration of office space is going to be. Office space is going to change. That's for sure. It's different than it was we're not turning, we're not going back. You're not putting that genie back in the bottle. But I want you to remember as well, that retail was dead too. We had big box stores, then there was a massive shift to online. And everybody said retail is dead. Nobody's going to be shopping in person anymore. And that's not true retail shifted to more experiential services. And now retail is as popular as ever. Who knows what's going to come next there. So, just wanted to give you all my thoughts. Real quick. If you liked the Quick Tip Tuesday, let me know in the comments. And I'll keep these comment. I've got lots of really cool, interesting ideas I'd be happy to share with all of you. This past week has been a good week. I am finalizing my apprentice search for peerless mill, we had 21 applicants, I reached out to 17 of them. And we are narrowing it down to two to three for final interviews next week, really excited to get that going had some absolutely amazing people apply. It's gonna be a very hard decision for me to make. But appreciate everybody spending the time reaching out and putting the effort into it because it was a it didn't make it an easy process. So everybody that did end up applying pretty high quality. I'm also hiring for an office manager and an integrator for the business. If, if you want to come work for us as an office manager, you will be working for me with me pretty much all day. Because I need I need a lot of help. You will essentially be my assistant helping me run the office on a day to day basis. Doing a bunch of YouTube stuff, a bunch of brokerage property management, you'll get a wide variety of experience. Go to Tyler cauble.com/career. And from there you'll be able to check out the indeed profile and apply for that job. As far as the integrator goes. I need a second in command. I need somebody to help me run and grow these businesses because So, I'm the visionary, I need somebody that's going to pick it up and execute. So if that sounds like you, then also go to that same URL, Tyler cauble.com/career. And shoot me an email. I don't have a formal job posting for that yet, we'll probably have that here. Pretty soon. So maybe by the time you're listening to this on the podcast that will be live. This past week, I also had a we had a board meeting for the Entrepreneurs Organization. I've been on the board there for a couple years at Junior Achievement of Nashville, and I had never experienced Junior Achievement. But now that is, that is a nonprofit that I want to get very involved in. They teach, you know, kids, middle schoolers, about business about entrepreneurship. And it is amazing. Just what they've built there. They had inside this space where we were meeting, they essentially had a an entire town square, built out with all these different businesses and shops and restaurants and post offices and everything to teach these kids about entrepreneurship. And man, I wish I had something like that when I was growing up. And so you know, seems seems like a lot of fun getting to teach kids that there are opportunities out there that maybe they haven't experienced before in their lives. And I can't wait to get involved with that. It seems that I got pretty excited about it. I also wanted to let you know I'm working on an in person conference on commercial real estate in Nashville. This fall, we haven't settled on a date yet is going to be in September or October. So save those two months on your calendar. We will be it'll likely be two days, one day exclusively for the Siri accelerator students where they get to come spend the day with me we'll tour around some of the properties walk around do some masterminding and workshops. And then we'll have a day of conference right? I have a bunch of my friends from commercial real estate come in and just teach you how to cashflow different types of commercial real estate. That seems very exciting to me. And there's not really a conference out there like it. So I figured you know what, why don't we just start it. Let's start getting people together and talking commercial real estate in Nashville, and having a good time. So stay tuned for that. Hopefully, we'll have some date settled here pretty soon. But I also wanted to announce I know there's a lot of announcements, but so we've got a lot of good stuff going on. It's why I'm hired, I need a lot of help. Logan and I Logan Freeman and I you may have seen are starting a commercial real estate brokerage mastermind on October 1 2020 for October 1 of this year. And to lead up to that we are announcing a program called 12 weeks to break into care. I have had a lot of residential real estate agents reach out to me asking how they can transition into commercial real estate. And it's tough because you really have to have a base layer of knowledge around commercial real estate before it's easy enough for a commercial real estate brokerage firm to hire you. So that being said, Logan and I have put together a 12 week curriculum with different lessons, podcasts, books, etc, for you to read on a weekly basis. And then he and I will be leading a class every week. I think it's going to be Monday nights at 7pm in order to just teach you further so at the end of that 12 week period, you should have enough foundational knowledge on commercial real estate to be able to get a job at a commercial real estate brokerage. It is a free class. We are not charging anything for this. All that we are asking is that you commit to attending all 12 classes and you commit to giving us feedback at the end of the 12 week period. Now, we're only opening it up to 20 students 20 students it will be on a first come first serve basis. So head on over to Tyler cauble.com/break BRE A K. And you will be able to fill out the form there and apply. We are starting that on July 1. So today is June 18. That's less than two weeks away. We will be kicking it off on July 1 So check that out. Tyler cauble.com/break. Alright, let's get into the comments. Vic in is saying Hey Tyler. Hey, Vic, what's going on man? He said Happy Father's Day. How was your father's day? It was great. Had a great time we went out and celebrated my grandfather at their house we cooked out had some brunch. So it was wonderful. I
also got a massage which was pretty nice. I really needed that I haven't gotten a massage and like over a year and it it was very necessary. CRA group is saying good morning from no deck. Yes, quick tip is great. Awesome. Appreciate that. CRA group. Hope everything is well and no deck and we'll keep the Quick Tip comment. Why not? I've got I've got plenty of little ideas that you know they're like two minute lessons. So might as well keep that going. Britney Spears Nagel is saying hey man, when raising money, how do you figure out the GP percentage of those who raised money me, Frank. Oh, Frank, what's going on man? So Frank, what we do is we will typically set aside a certain percentage of the general partnership for the capital raise. So let's just say it's 25% of the general partnership is for 100% of the capital raise. So then, if you go out and raise 50% of the total capital needed, then you get 50% of that 25%. So 12.5% of the general partnership for the amount of capital that you raised. I hope that makes sense. Let me know if you have any other questions on it. That's how we do it. I know a lot of people do it in different ways. That's what I found to be the most fair and the most enticing for a lot of people. You can't let me say this, too. You can't just raise capital and a syndication, you have to have some sort of ongoing role. So you know, if that's investor relations, if there's some sort of accounting or you know, I don't know, offering that you can make when it comes to the deal, you do want to have some sort of an active role for that person that's raising capital that isn't just raising the capital. If you do get audited by the SEC, that will be something that they are checking. So something to keep in mind. Hope that helps. Captain Kurt saying sweet, I'll be there at the conference. Yeah, you will. Curt looking forward to seeing you again. Man, it's been too long. We got to get you down in Nashville. They've got to come down here and hang out with me for the day. William is saying would you recommend taking CCIE am 101 class over the summer as a rising college senior with a major in finance if desiring an analyst position? Or is there a downside to starting this early? William? Great question. Man. I wish I had the foresight that you do. When I was in college, although to be fair, I was only there for 12 months would be a stretch 100% I would say taking CCIE would be a phenomenal idea. CCI and one on one because look, here's the only downside. It's expensive, right? I mean, it's it's 1500 1800 bucks, I think plus travel and room and board. Which really at the end of the day, isn't that expensive. I know, that's just you know, it's a it's a decent amount of money for people. But it is very inexpensive for what you're actually getting out of the class. I'll say it that way the value is there. I think that it certainly helps. When you're trying to break into commercial real estate, it is important that you do everything that you can to lay the proper foundation for your knowledge, because that's the that's the hardest part that firms have with hiring new people is the the learning curve. And the training that comes with somebody new to the commercial real estate industry. It can be tough, you know, I mean, that's why everybody says, you know, when you become a commercial real estate broker, it takes three to five years before you start really seeing any money. And that's that was true for me, right? My first and second year, I made like $40,000 Each, which you know, $40,000 salary, not that $40,000, a commission that's like that, that might as well be a $10,000 salary, right? Like you are stressed out all the time. Fortunately, I was able to work on weekends and construction and wait tables, and I got by my third year 120,000. And it's been going up ever since. But it's because you have to one build the right relationships, but to you have to prove that you know what you're doing and what you're talking about. Not not necessarily just other people also to yourself, right, in order for you to recognize what a good deal is. You have to fully understand and have that experience. So I certainly think that you cannot get started too early when it comes to your education and commercial real estate. So 100% I support CCM I love what they're doing. Well, Coleman what's going on, buddy? Good to see. Well, Sam, what's up? Tyler? When you're looking at a retail at retail strip malls and you see a space that is 12,000 square feet? How difficult is that to lease? Or would you recommend dividing that up? Well, that is a great question. So to me, it depends on the market that you are in, and the condition of the space. So if you are in a lower traffic area, or an area that has a lower population, or lower population growth, I would see 12,000 square feet as a potential risk. Now that doesn't mean that you need to just divide it up today and go about that process. What I would say is in your marketing, say, you know, Hey, it's 12,000 square feet total. But we're willing to divide it up in suites as small as 2000 square feet and mark it both ways. Because you might get a tenant that comes along and says hey, I want the full 12,000 feet. Great. You might have six tenants come along and say hey, we want to 1000 square feet. And you want to kind of keep that open for each tenant. So as you're dividing that space up, just make sure that you're being conscientious about how you're doing it and and try and keep a big chunk together, right. So if somebody wants 2000 square feet, don't let them take 2000, right in the middle of the space, put them with a neighbor. That way, you have 2000 square feet over here, and then 10,000 square feet contiguous. Because somebody still may come along and say, hey, I want 10,000 square feet. So that doesn't necessarily scare me, there are plenty of big box tenants that are actually still running around. I was talking to one yesterday that was calling about a shopping center that I owned, where we've got 20,000 square feet available. So they are out there. And you know, what the the headlines saying that, hey, you know, nobody's taking space like that anymore. Really scary, because I'm talking to them all the time. So it's, it's certainly a possibility for you to find somebody that's that big, I would just consider adding to your marketing, hey, we're willing to demise it up. Here's what that would look like to call is saying, if you're graduating college, and your end goal was to start your own commercial real estate investment firm, what path would you take? Great question Cole. So I didn't start my brokerage until five years into the business. And I'll be honest with you, I was the youngest. At the time in Nashville, probably still was the youngest commercial real estate broker nationalist hormone firm. And I think it was 25 or 26. At the time, I would highly recommend if you want to start your own investment firm, going and working for either just go work for another brokerage for 5678 years, and get the knowledge that you need to be an awesome commercial real estate broker and then go out on your own. There's a bunch of different things that a lot of commercial real estate brokers don't necessarily take into account when they go to start their own commercial real estate brokerage. And that's that it is a business, right? Now you are having to pay rent for a space. And now you are having to pay for all of the software's and all the services and all that kind of stuff. For me, it was 100% worth the decision, I can't work for somebody else I could, but they would have to be a great a plus manager. And that is the exact opposite of what I had, I had a terrible boss. So I was destined to not be there for very long. So those are a few things to keep in mind. I actually had a call with a friend earlier this week, who was looking at starting her own brokerage, and I ran through everything with her and told her Hey, by the way, here's all the stuff that you're gonna have to deal with. She decided she might not actually be opening up her own brokerage now because it's, you know, you start getting distracted from the investment sales. And now you have to focus on running a business. Those are two very different things, those skill sets do not necessarily translate. So something to keep in mind. But I would say look, if you're if you're wanting to, you know, start your own firm there. Yeah. Let's see. Well, saying it's incorrect Seville high traffic area. Yeah, well, I wouldn't feel too bad about that. 12,000 square feet. Happy to take a look at it with you, man and dive into that, and see what we can do. And I'll give you my my real thoughts on it. But to me, that seems that seems like a pretty decent space to get least begin is saying, Tyler, how do residents not pay mortgage? Vicki? I'm not too sure if you're like, are you talking about like a house? How do you not pay your mortgage, I mean, I would go about doing house hack.
And you know, really just buying something as cheaply as possible, finding some roommates or buying a duplex and renting out the other side. And having the the tenants that are renting from me really pay the mortgage. That's that's a great way to get started. You know, when you're first getting into commercial real estate or real estate, in general, anything you can do to just cut your expenses is a win, right? So even if you have if you buy a piece of real estate, and you know your mortgage is $2,000 a month, but you have tenants paying you $2,000 a month, that's a wet, right, because now you're not having to pay $2,000 A month towards your mortgage, that's $2,000 a month that you can save to go buy more property. So I highly recommend that. I mean, look, there's there's basically two ways to get cash, that's either cutting your expenses or keeping your expenses low or earning more money. For me, I've always kept my expenses low no matter how much more money I earn. Just because every dollar that I save as another dollar I can put into commercial real estate. And I know what my end goal is, I want to have so much money, passive income every month that I can go do whatever I want. And I'm willing to sacrifice that today in order to get that and you know, five or 10 years so I would just figure out kind of what your goal is and work your way back from there. Evan is saying closing on my first commercial land deal to build flex space this August. Congrats Evan. That's really exciting man. Is there specific businesses or tenants you would recommend not renting to Oh It's a good question not renting, too. So there's no like hard line of I would never rent to this person. It all comes down to. I mean, it's always on a case by case basis, I think I would be careful of any businesses that could be potentially environmentally unfriendly. Right? And I don't necessarily mean that it like a greenway, I just mean it in like, you don't want somebody that's going to be storing a bunch of chemicals that you know, doesn't care about space and might start pouring it down your Stormwater drains, that, to me is a nightmare. And it could cause environmental issues for you and for them, and then you know, would they be liable for it Sure. But then now you're going to have to sue them and make them pay for it. And good luck, I just, I try and avoid conflict whenever I can. It's just not worth it. At the end of the day. You know, autobody, shops are always tough, they always have so many cars, that are just sitting everywhere. And that's good, right? I know they're doing business, so they're gonna be able to pay me rent. It's just something that I don't particularly like, unless they're gonna be storing all of those vehicles inside. I always make sure I mean, talking about vehicles, make sure that the number of employees that they will be having Park on site is actually true. We've had tenants try to get by saying, you know, hey, you know, we only have three or five employees, and then somehow they're showing up with eight to 10 vehicles every day. And then you have to start enforcing parking rules. And, you know, then they get upset because they, you know, they thought it was open parking, but at the same time, you can't have somebody that's yeah, Marcus Cottrell, Marcus, what's going on, man, he's saying Be cautious of auto mechanics, they will jump up your place. That's exactly and mark his own supply space down in Alabama. So it's, it's, you know, really on a case by case basis, one thing that I like to look into is, what are like, what, what's the credit, right, do a background check. That's, that's the biggest thing. I mean, you don't necessarily have six figures of cash in the bank, for me to say, Hey, this is a tenant worth working with, they might not have very much cash. But if they show me that they can pay their rent every month, they're not going to cost me a lot. They're going to be good tenants that are going to tear up my space, they're going to take care of it. I'm willing to work with them, especially when it comes to you know, flex space, because that's just kind of kind of what it takes when, when it comes to to that type of property. Oh, man. Well, while we're waiting on some more questions to come in, I'll give you guys some updates on what I got going on for the rest of the week. So we've got standing meetings at Salt Ranch, excited to have that deal back underway in full swing. We're going to be walking through the electricians today, actually, as soon as I leave here, because we are going to fully update the electrical on that property. We had a walkthrough with our contractor last week, talking about some changes we were making. We were originally going to have barn doors on the bathrooms in the hotel. And I wasn't ever really thrilled about that. I don't like barn doors and bathrooms. But spatially it was the only thing that would work with our design. And we ended up deciding if you follow me on Instagram, you saw some termite damage that I was showing off last week, we ended up deciding to just rip all the walls out and build them back. And so now we're doing pocket doors instead. So much better. You can hide the door, it doesn't take up any more space. It's pretty great. So can't wait to get that deal done and have it open here in Nashville. We're gonna have to have a grand opening party. You guys are all gonna have to come out. Coming to Nashville. It'll be spring at 25 We'll have a grand opening party will be a lot of fun. Chris is saying for getting started wholesaling, commercial real estate coming from residential. What's your advice? Are you making it clear? It's an assignment especially for deals on terms. So Chris, here, here's what I say about wholesaling commercial real estate. Can it be done? Absolutely. It certainly can be. Is it infinitely more difficult than residential? For sure. It absolutely is. Here's here's the tough part about commercial wholesaling compared to residential. on the residential side, people are accustomed to closing in 14 days, right, two to four weeks. That's pretty, pretty odd poor. Sometimes people are closing even faster than that if you're able to get things figured out. Commercial doesn't work that way. I mean, nobody is paying that much in cash to close in two to four weeks. And it's often very difficult to get a property under contract for long enough to justify working it as a wholesale. And the thing is, you're probably going to have to take on a little more risk than you're used to on the residential side. So if you put a property under contract, you're probably going to have to go ahead and pull the trigger on a survey in a phase one environmental report. That'll cost you probably 10 grand, so not a lot but It's worth doing. Because any buyer coming in is going to have to do that they're going to have to have the time to do that. And it is going to take three to four weeks, probably just for those two reports alone, then you've got to think to if somebody is using a winder, which most people in commercial real estate are some people are paying cash, we I mean, I would say probably fewer than 10% of our clients at the brokerage are paying all cash. So that means 90% of people out there are using a loan. And that means that it's going to take 45 to 60 days sometimes for the bank to get all the approvals that they need in order to finance it. So you start adding that up and the timeline is a lot longer. So can it be done for sure? Can the numbers be a lot bigger than residential? Absolutely, I've seen six figure I've actually seen one seven figure wholesale fee before our commercial property. Because it can be justified if you find a good enough deal can be justified but it's those are the those are a few things to keep in mind. I do a video on wholesaling commercial real estate hope that hope that helps. Cesar saying good morning, Tyler, if I have plenty of equity built up on a property, what's the best way to bring capital for an iOS? So industrial outdoor storage HELOC or an equity loan? It's good question Caesar. Man it, it all comes down to what your interest rates are. Right? I mean, that's that's really it at the end of the day is is what is going to give you a better interest rate. Because as soon as you start drawing down on either of those, you're gonna have to start paying interest. So you're gonna want to make sure that you are, you know, one able to cover that and to hopefully getting it covered by the cash flow from the new asset as quickly as possible. That's what I'll be looking into. I think either those options are fine. I think raising capital from investors probably better is equity more expensive in the long run? Yes, it usually is. However, they're in for the ride, which means you're not going to have to start immediately making monthly interest payments. As soon as you start drawing down that capital, they'll take a bigger chunk of the upside, but they're also going to take a little bit more of a risk with you. So it's worth it. Dylan Patel is saying, Hey, Tyler looking to break into commercial real estate development after a few years as a commercial agent. Awesome, dude, glad to hear it. Man. I love development, it's a lot of fun. Best advice I can give you is go find a developer partner with him on a couple of deals, learn the ropes, and then go off on your own. I see too many people make the mistake of getting confident saying oh, well, all I have to do is hire a general contractor and they'll kind of build it for me. And that's a very bad, very, very bad mistake to make in commercial real estate. John is saying good morning. What is your advice on getting space flex or small warehouses leased out? Hire a broker, etc. 100%. I mean, hire a broker, hire a broker that specializes in flex space in your area, hire the broker that has the space listed next door. Right? I know a lot of people think that that's kind of weird. But let's be honest, if somebody is calling on the space next door, they're probably a pretty good prospect for your space too. And that space next door may not have the space to accommodate that tenant, whereas you might. So there's a weed right there. Right? The brokers that are focused on that market are the ones that are bringing all the business in. So what I would do that, to make sure Chris is saying thanks for the advice, brother, absolutely, Chris happy to do it. Man. If
make sure that your marketing is just on point, too many people don't have good marketing, when it comes to their deals. Like don't take pictures, you know, on on a putter from a potato, like I just don't understand it, like iPhones have such good quality cameras now. Like just take high quality photos. Make sure that you're framing the shot. And make sure the lighting is good. Go Go get Lightroom it's like eight bucks a month. It's an Adobe product, edit the photos, make them look nice. And make sure that you're just telling the full story of what's going on. I mean, you know, I was I was talking to a buddy of mine the other day he was he's he owns a self storage facility. He was talking to the guy down the street who's trying to sell his self storage facility and he was like, I'm getting no calls on it. And you know, they were talking it's like, well, the guy has one terrible old looking picture of the property. So people looking at it online cannot tell what the hell is going on there. It just makes it tough, right? So, hire a broker, make sure that your marketing is on point Marcus is saying we hired a broker. Yeah, he hired a broker for his his flex space best decision. They do everything for you. I mean, if you wanted to do the work yourself, you know, go post it on loop net posted on crack see posted on Craigslist, get a giant sign of the front yard, put signs and all the windows, you know, post on Facebook groups, send out mailers cold call door knock whatever but to be honest with you, a commercial real estate broker is going to do every single one of those things for you. And you're not going to have to pay them until they finalize a deal for you and you have cash in the bank. So always worth hiring a broker that has all the time we have for this week's office hours. Join me next Tuesday 8:30am Central Standard Time, and we'll take it from there. Are you looking to take the next step toward investing in commercial real estate but don't know where to go? Series central offers a comprehensive education and coaching platform designed to help you get started. Our online courses cover a wide range of topics from the fundamentals to advanced strategies, ensuring you have the knowledge and skills needed to thrive in this competitive industry. As a member, you'll gain access to our exclusive online community and monthly group coaching calls, providing you with valuable networking opportunities and personalized guidance from experienced professionals. Whether you're a beginner or looking to take your career to the next level, cre Central has the resources you need. Visit www dot cre central.com To learn more
Each week, I'm going live at 8:30am CST for my "office hours" to answer your questions about commercial real estate on the show. Let's hear what you'd like to know when it comes to brokerage, investment, and development!